[00:00:00] Eric: hey everybody, this is Eric Y Chen of the Y factor podcast. And today I have my good friend Chie Tamada, AKA spark letters, which used to be in your Instagram handle. , and I am Chie super excited to have you here. We’ve been following each other’s journey in the last two years, I believe. , and it’s been a great time to see.

[00:00:21] You know, where your passions and where your journey has taken you. , especially with, with your own business, which I’ll let you explain. You know, what that is and what it is that you do. 

[00:00:30] Chie: Sure. Thanks for having me. , my name’s Chie and I’m a lettering artist and illustrator based in San Francisco.

[00:00:39], so I basically draw letters for businesses of all kinds. , I moved up here from LA about five years ago, and that’s when I started doing lettering. And I actually moved up to join the tech scene. So I currently still work full time, , at a large tech company [00:01:00] as a design program manager. But during my free time in the evenings, I do a lot of the lettering, freelance work, 

[00:01:07] Eric: and I feel like lettering in itself has become wildly popular in the last few years.

[00:01:13], so what even got you into it? . To begin with. 

[00:01:18] Chie: Yeah. , so when I moved up here, I left a lot of my friends who, , were in LA. And so I felt like I had a lot of free time to myself in the evenings and weekends, and I wanted to find a. Hobby or something to occupy my free time. So I started looking through like Instagram or Pinterest to find something.

[00:01:39] And lettering was like the first thing that came to my mind. , so 

[00:01:45] Eric: what stood out to you when you had. Looked it up. 

[00:01:48] Chie: Yeah. I think like when I was in school, I would be in class, , doodling a lot instead of paying attention. , I was taking a lot of engineering, like science classes, but [00:02:00] maybe that had something to do with it.

[00:02:01], I. Saw it online and I started practicing. And it’s very easy and cheap to start doing lettering cause all you need is a pen and a piece of paper. So I challenged myself to do like a three 65 days of hand lettering challenge. So I, that’s when I started my first Instagram account just for lettering.

[00:02:24] And then practice everyday, took a photo of it and posted it online. And, , since then I’ve been continuing to do it. So it’s been about five years and I slowly started picking up, , small client jobs here and there. And now I’m doing a lot more stuff 

[00:02:41] Eric: and we’re going to dive into that in a little bit.

[00:02:44] But yeah, I mean, what, what got me excited to, to want to bring you onto this podcast really, it was just even just that. Introduction of, you know, from where you started working in corporate and then just doing something every day [00:03:00] as just a side hobby, turning it into a passion, right? I mean, what, what was it that, how’d you decide like, Hey, I am going to do this for 365 days and post it on Instagram.

[00:03:15] Like, what got you to even want to do that? Instead of just like doodling by yourself at home and just, you know, keeping a book to yourself. 

[00:03:25] Chie: Yeah. I think, , the challenge allowed me to stay accountable. So I think this is a little bit before lettering became like super mainstream. So nowadays you see lettering on like basically any sort of campaign or like.

[00:03:43] Any, , product really. But before, I think, , it started getting a little bit more popular through Instagram and Pinterest, and people were able to share a lot of content. , and nowadays I feel like there’s just a lot more letters out there. , [00:04:00] but. I think what was really interesting and inspiring and kept me going was the fact that there, I discovered this whole world of lettering, artists and creatives in general through social media, and it was so easy for people to just share the work that they did.

[00:04:20], find other work through like hashtags and stuff and become friends with these other account owners. , have conversations with them, like connect with them and you know, you, you may have never met them, but you also share that same interest and that same passion for lettering. So that was really encouraging.

[00:04:43] Eric: Did you find like the community of these fellow letterers not too competitive, everyone is pretty supportive of each other? 

[00:04:51] Chie: I’d say so, yeah. 

[00:04:53] Eric: Everyone’s pretty nice in terms of like wanting to see everyone flourish or, 

[00:04:56] Chie: yeah. , I haven’t come across any letterers [00:05:00] that were out to get me or anything.

[00:05:03] And I think it’s something that I noticed recently too. Like letters in general, I feel like are more optimistic and positive. And that might be because what they originally started doing was finding inspirational quotes. . Like work hard and like hustle or like all these different things that they saw on Pinterest and decided to like draw them out.

[00:05:24] And so they themselves are like already pretty, , positive, friendly, nice people who are also sharing content and like praising each other’s work. So it was a very healthy community to, , get involved in. 

[00:05:38] Eric: And I bring that up because, you know, in my line of work. You know, being an entrepreneur, entrepreneurship, sometimes you just don’t know what the other person’s motive is.

[00:05:50] Especially like, you know, we’re creating a product, or we’re in the Amazon space and someone’s like, Oh, like it’s cool. What do you do? And they want to find out what your product is, but sometimes you can’t tell it to people because [00:06:00] you don’t want them to compete with you either. And so it just becomes this whole ordeal.

[00:06:04] You know, people want to support each other. So it’s like, as long as you’re not in my, you know, my space or Bobo, then yeah, we can be friends. , but it’s, it’s great to hear that there is such a healthy mindset and community of, of people who are supporting each other. 

[00:06:18] Chie: Yeah. I think the competitor, like mindset often happens more, , like internally versus actually existing in the artists community.

[00:06:30] Eric: And so it’s rather than like against someone else, it’s more about, wow, I really liked their work. I want to be just as good as them or aspire to like do that solid work that they are creating. 

[00:06:42] Chie: Yeah. Yeah. I think with social media, a lot of creatives have a love hate relationship where, like I mentioned before, they.

[00:06:51] We’re introduced to this whole world of creatives and like, people are praising each other and stuff and like liking or commenting each other’s work, which is great, [00:07:00] but at the same time, there is also that comparison, , trap that you can get into. And so you see each other’s work and you see how many likes one person got, and then you compare it to your work might not have as big of a following and all of that.

[00:07:15] So I feel like if could get into that dark side, you might. Feel that competitiveness, like start growing inside you, but I think it’s really unhealthy. And also just self induced . 

[00:07:29] Eric: Yeah. So rather than just focus on just the likes, really just, you know, work on the art and the creatives and support each other.

[00:07:37] It really, if you’re working, if you’re focused on your work and your work just gets better and better than the followers will eventually. Follow you and support you. Right? Right. , you brought up the part of the 365 days, , as part of that, you know, holding yourself accountable. And that’s something that I’ve actually come across with, from other entrepreneurs of them [00:08:00] saying like, I did this and I was able to succeed or get to a certain point because I put some type of , accountability measure for myself.

[00:08:09] And so one of the examples they gave me. This entrepreneur said, I’m going to launch a business, or I’m going to start my first Amazon product, and I’m just going to publicly just share that on Facebook saying, Hey guys, I am starting a business. I’m starting on Amazon. I’m going to try to launch my first product by this time and just post it on his Facebook.

[00:08:27] And then just every day just posted about his progress of, Hey, I’m at this point, blah, blah, blah. And so whether people liked it or not, he didn’t really care. It just for it to be out there. And at a certain point he said, . You know, for two weeks, maybe he went on vacation or he was busy doing something.

[00:08:42] Then all of a sudden, you know, people reached out to him like, Hey, , where’s the progress? Or where’s like, what are you doing with the business? Cause you’ve just gone dark. And he’s like, Oh crap. Wow. People are actually, you know, looking or seeing and waiting for, for my progress.

[00:08:56] Especially because it’s already out there and they’re expecting something. And so he’s [00:09:00] like, okay, yeah, let me make sure I’m on top of it. And then keep sharing that. And that is what, in terms of. Publicly keeping himself accountable, you know, with his peers or his network or his friends and families who are seeing what he’s doing.

[00:09:11] Chie: Yeah. 

[00:09:12] Eric: You feel like that was kind of your mentality or, 

[00:09:16] Chie: , I think, yeah, when I started that challenge, that was probably it, but it was less of me trying to share that with my friends or the people around me. Just having that account existing on my own, , I think was good. I think I do follow a lot of, like.

[00:09:33] Accountability strategies or like things for my own projects. And a lot of the times I think I keep it to myself, so I’ll like have a spreadsheet or, , just a little list of things that I want to accomplish, like quarterly or monthly. , just recently though, I had a bunch of projects that I wanted to do and I ended up creating.

[00:09:53] Or making a friend who we ended up becoming accountability buddies for each other for certain things, , for the month of [00:10:00] September. So that was super helpful too, and like a new strategy that I tried. 

[00:10:04] Eric: Yeah. So speaking of that, I actually joined a, an accountability group. 

[00:10:09] Chie: Oh, no way. 

[00:10:11] Eric: Yeah, that was, I forget which month.

[00:10:14] Those were, I think, probably early summer. And really, yeah, it was just a three month process of. , a three month process of us just jumping on weekly calls and then talking about like, what are we going to be doing for the week? What did we do the previous week? And then seeing, you know, where we are and actually have a discussion of like, why didn’t we achieve, you know, such task.

[00:10:36] And then. See how we can continue to help each other, , to, to get to where we are. And so it was about, I think, yeah, for entrepreneurs, , because everyone’s doing something different, but there’s, could be some overlap. And so that’s how we kept each other accountable. And just having those discussions, just people from different industries or verticals to be able to support each other 

[00:10:55] Chie: that’s great  

[00:10:56] Eric: especially cause doing something like that, we sometimes you [00:11:00] feel like entrepreneurship.

[00:11:01] Can be lonely when you’re on your own. And especially, you know, you and I, we, you know, went to school and went through corporate. So the mindset is a little bit different, , from other people who don’t necessarily understand why you’re doing this, or, you know, why you have a business when you could be completely content with your, you know, your salary and just.

[00:11:21] Go, we’ll go to happy hour or go to concerts and stuff and just have fun. , you know, and I think even following your journey, it’s like, it’s very impressive because not only are you working a full time job and you’re also doing this as a side business, but I believe you also participate in 

[00:11:38] triathlons.

[00:11:39] Is that right? So

[00:11:41] Chie: yeah, I do a lot of like exercise and fitness stuff. 

[00:11:45]

[00:11:45] Eric: So how do you balance, you know, having a full time job, , working on the side business and, you know, being pretty much a athlete and, or doing triathlons? 

[00:11:56] Chie: Yeah. , I find it very difficult to manage [00:12:00] everything on top of. Family and friends and other obligations.

[00:12:04] But , I try to give myself also space to do like personal things or give myself me time. Cause I also realize like I need to have days where I can just focus on doing things that make me happy, that are outside of my business and work and those things too. So setting aside like specific. Hours out of my day or my weekends has been helpful just to keep me sane.

[00:12:30], and with the other things, as long as I’m enjoying it and, , it’s keeping me happy, I feel like I can try to balance or juggle all three. So the three things being the lettering stuff and work and, , the fitness exercise. So I try to incorporate all three things each day. And so in the mornings I wake up.

[00:12:52] And I go to the gym, , or I like go on a run or do something like that just to train. And then I go to my day job for like [00:13:00] eight or nine hours. And then in the evenings I spend most of my time just drawing or working on client projects. So as long as I can do all three of those things in some way, I’ll be pretty happy.

[00:13:11] Eric: Yeah. , so then you set aside, so then on top of that, then, like you mentioned, you need to set aside some time for just personal time, right. So whether that’s just, you know. Hanging out with friends or having some downtime and maybe catching up on a show. Is it just a very strict, like, Hey, every Friday I’m carving out three hours for myself?

[00:13:31] Or is it just when you feel like you’re reaching a limit, then you’re like, I, I need, you know, three hours, six hours, or just, I’m not going to do anything for one day. Like, how do you, how do you. Configure that. 

[00:13:45] Chie: I tried not to hit a point where I’m like reaching my limit because I feel like then it’s very unhealthy.

[00:13:50] But of course there are days, there are weeks where it’s like a lot more stressful than others. , I don’t have like specific hours that I would carve out every week, [00:14:00] but if I can do, if I can spend a couple of hours or even an hour doing something fun. , that’s outside of client work or work, then I think it’s great.

[00:14:12] So it might still consist of me like going to a coffee shop for five hours and drawing, but if it’s not for like specific client work or if I’m just doing lettering for fun, then it still makes me very happy and gives me a little bit of a break from all the other things that are keeping me busy.

[00:14:30] Got it. Yeah. 

[00:14:31] Eric: Would you consider yourself an entrepreneur or, I know. 

[00:14:37] Chie: I, yeah, I’d say so. Yeah. , and the reason why is because I feel like when I first got into lettering, it was just for fun. You know, like I was just drawing, didn’t feel like I was going to make any money off of it. That was not the intent at all.

[00:14:51] Eric: When you did start lettering, it wasn’t even. There was no intention of you just starting a business from it. Really 

[00:14:58] just 

[00:14:59] a, Hey, [00:15:00] it’s a little hobby. Let me just post it on Instagram as a journal of my work, and then that’s it. So there’s no plan of like, I want to become a professional like letter or a typographer and then 

[00:15:11] Chie: work with 

[00:15:11] Eric: companies.

[00:15:12] So it’s just more about once you started doing that, people recognize your work and just started reaching out to you. Right. So then what was the turning point for you to say yes to that first client or. Oh, you know what? This could become a business. 

[00:15:25] Chie: Yeah. , so yes, when I first started, I was just doing it to pick up a skill, and then I think about like six to seven months afterwards, , I had some friends that were following me on Instagram and they were like, Hey, I have a wedding coming up.

[00:15:40], would you mind. Lettering, something for me so I can showcase it. And I was like, yeah, sure. And then I did it for very little money. , but I was like, Oh, this is pretty cool. Like I can buy an extra cup of coffee or like 

[00:15:52] Eric: 10 bucks. 

[00:15:53] Chie: Yeah. Or like avocado toast or like something nice. , and so that was [00:16:00] delightful.

[00:16:00] And then eventually a friends of friends or. Other people in the community would reach out for similar things also, but with a little bit higher of a price point. And I was starting to think maybe I can make this a side business. So when I started, I was actually doing a lot of calligraphy and brush lettering.

[00:16:18] So that’s, , a little bit more geared towards the wedding industry. So those are my main clients. And then I think about a year and a half into that, I decided to pivot because I was getting a lot of the same client work, and I’m the type of person that gets bored easily if I’m doing the same thing over and over again.

[00:16:36] And if you go on Pinterest, you’ll see that all the wedding inspiration, like they look pretty similar, you know, chalkboards, wooden boards, yeah, all of that stuff. And I did many of those, but I wanted to like. Explore other territories. So it was true. I 

[00:16:54] Eric: remember you starting off with a lot of weddings.

[00:16:56] Chie: Yeah. 

[00:16:57] Eric: Then I feel like then it went turned [00:17:00] into a lot of digital stuff. Murals. 

[00:17:03] Chie: Yeah. And I, yeah. Digital stuff and murals like came in around the same time. , I still work analog too, so I do a lot of drawing on paper, but I got an iPad and, , started doing murals too. And so. When I got those gigs, the client projects and the quotes got a lot higher.

[00:17:24] And so I started taking myself a little bit more seriously as a entrepreneur and small business owner. , but yeah, the reason why I would consider myself one also is because I’m wearing multiple hats when I’m doing it, I’m not just drawing. So the creative side is like super important, but there’s so many other roles that you have to play.

[00:17:43] Like. Sales, like pitching and finding clients and doing all the financial stuff, and like bookkeeping and all of that, and social media. Oh my gosh. That’s like the main thing also, which is really 

[00:17:56] Eric: your accounting, your marketing operations. Then you’re the [00:18:00] designer. 

[00:18:00] Chie: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a lot. And I only have so many hours to do it in a day, but, .

[00:18:07] I do my best to do more creative work than other things. And if some of the other things are like a little bit more, , , what do you call it, like annoying or, , repetitive, then I’ll try to automate it or like find other ways to do it. 

[00:18:23] Eric: . . You bring up a good point. Yeah.

[00:18:24] The, you know, putting some type of content out there. Or maybe I’ll go to a networking meeting or network event, and then people come up to me and figure out what I do and they want to inquire about the services. Or maybe they are even referred to me and it’s like, cool. Yeah, like let’s do it.

[00:18:37] And then all of a sudden I have to draft up a contract or a proposal and then make it all formal. And then I’m like, that’s like what I dread the most is having to create a proposal. Because at that point it’s like you don’t know if they’re going to sign up and after reviewing it, maybe they just.

[00:18:54] You know, price shopping, and then you’re like, I thought you just wanted me for my expertise and my service and it was [00:19:00] going to be a done deal. So that just takes up so much time. And then sometimes you don’t even close the deal. 

[00:19:06] Chie: Yeah. Legal is a huge part of it too, because you have to write up contracts.

[00:19:09] And when I was first starting, I had no idea what I was doing, but I would like find things on Google and try to figure it out. 

[00:19:15] Eric: Yeah. , so in terms of, like you mentioned, you know, once you started ramping up with a few clients and. You said like, Oh, I should take this more seriously. What were those things that I guess leveled you up, , to take things more seriously?

[00:19:33] Chie: Hmm. I think, well, what excited me or motivated me about that was because of social media. I saw a lot of. Lettering artists or creatives in general who were doing the same things but with much bigger clients. And so they, a lot of ’em do this full time. And so that inspired me and made me [00:20:00] think like, Oh, you know, maybe one day I could do something like this.

[00:20:02] And so I can take like little baby steps to get the next bigger clients and try to increase my portfolio. And. Yeah. Keep like chipping at it to see what a direction I wanted to go towards. 

[00:20:17] Eric: I feel, I feel like you’re being humble with the clients. I feel like you’ve had some pretty big clients already.

[00:20:25] Are you allowed to share some of those. Like, who have you worked with so far? 

[00:20:29]Chie: , I’ve worked with tech companies like large ones, so Google and Facebook, both. , and right now I’m trying to work myself into more of the active living fitness industry. So still working out some of those projects with clients that I can’t say any names, but, , that’s the.

[00:20:51] Focus area that I’ve committed to for the next few months or years. We’ll see, , since my rebrand. 

[00:21:00] [00:21:00] Eric: Yeah. So, , can you talk a little bit more about your rebrand? Cause I remember when I was, it’s already been months when I was like, yeah, I have to interview Chie. The title of this podcast is going to be something about like sparking joy, you know, or your passions via spark letter, which was your old Instagram.

[00:21:18] And then you changed that. And then I’m like, okay, what am I going to call it? Like reference some type of spark and passion. So what was the, the whole rebrand thought process. 

[00:21:27] Chie: So when I did start my Instagram account, I was like, what. Username am I going to use, cause I didn’t want to use my name because I didn’t, I did it like anonymously really.

[00:21:37] And so I think what originated that was like, , when I was in college, I did a lot of crafting and we use a lot of glitter. And so it was like, Oh, I can combine lettering with like sparkles. And then also like sparking creativity and all of that tied into it too. So I stuck with that for like a good four to five years, which was a pretty long time.

[00:21:57] And then. Earlier this year, [00:22:00] I decided that I wanted to do a rebrand or like think more about, , how I wanted to get certain clients and shift my focus. And the reason why was because I felt like it was important for me, , for people seeing my work to be able to identify it by. 

[00:22:18] Eric: recognizing the artists, 

[00:22:19] Chie: right?

[00:22:20] Yes. , that it was done by me. Chie Tamada and not this like anonymous person, in spark letters. And I think that also started from like me doing murals and I would tag it with spark letters and a lot of people wouldn’t know who it was. So I think sometime in the spring I was doing a mural for a coffee shop in San Francisco, and at the same time I was like, trying to think of.

[00:22:42] What my next like handle should be. And I was like thinking really hard and I was almost done with the mural. It was like 2:00 AM and the last thing I had to do was tag it. And I had like a whole list of names in my phone, like no app. And I like. Finally [00:23:00] chose Chie.Tamada because Chie Tamada is already taken by this like other Japanese person.

[00:23:05] But it was, , it was really cool moment because when I painted my name onto the wall and I looked back, I was like, wow. Actually this is super cool. Because once. Anybody walks past it, they’ll know that it was done by me. And I actually had a friend reach out to me last week through Instagram and they were like, Hey, I was walking by this coffee shop while visiting San Francisco and I saw your name.

[00:23:26] I couldn’t believe that you made that mural. So things like that, I feel like was super important. And with the whole rebrand process, it wasn’t just about changing my name, but also. Thinking through like, what are my values, , what do I really care about? What, , what excites me?

[00:23:43] What sorts of clients do I want to work with? And so I did like multiple exercises of trying to understand who I was. And a lot of reflecting. And I finally narrowed it down to, , some of the personality attributes being like me being a [00:24:00] creative, also very positive person and, , several other things.

[00:24:04] But the one thing that also stood out was me doing a lot of exercise and being active. And that’s been a huge part of me for like at least five or six years. But I never really incorporate that, incorporated that into my creative side. So I just always kept it to the side. But I always did like, you know, I always went to the gym.

[00:24:25] I’ve been doing triathlons and running and stuff, and, , because during this rebrand process, I also wanted to figure out a way to differentiate myself from other lettering artists out there and find a niche. I decided. Why not combine both. And so my focus or like my mission is to, , create letter, create lettering pieces, , to inspire creativity and active living.

[00:24:54] Yeah. So that’s the main message. 

[00:24:57] Eric: Yeah. I feel like it’s, it’s so well [00:25:00] balanced in terms of, , your life and everything that you’re doing. , I feel like a lot of people who are just figuring out what they want to do, whether they’re still in school and college or their first job, or just even going through their careers.

[00:25:15], you know, I think what I come across, like a lot of people say is like, yeah, like you should work your dead end job and, but then just supplement that with something creative 

[00:25:24] Chie: and then 

[00:25:24] Eric: that should kind of get you by. , and then to create that balance and obviously go exercise. Like, is that.

[00:25:32] Kind of what helped, like spark that initial thing. Like were you happy with your, your corporate job previously? , you know, when you first started or you were in an okay place, but just wanting to challenge yourself more. 

[00:25:45] Chie: , so when I moved up here, I was really happy with my corporate job because I had studied engineering and I wanted to work in tech, but not do anything technical.

[00:25:55] So I became a program manager in a product slash [00:26:00] engineering team. , but I was there for three years and I felt like I wasn’t being challenged enough. And so I think the first year was great, but I was still trying to find ways to occupy my free time. So that’s when I picked up lettering and I started putting more focus into , figuring out ways to make it a business as my, , my role and my responsibilities, that my day job was becoming less and less fulfilling.

[00:26:27] So yes, I feel like that. Helped me have a lot of energy during my free time to put into growing my business. , but I did have a point in time where I also considered like, should I be doing this full time? , and that’s when like the quarter life crisis sorta came into. But I eventually ended up finding a role where I was able to combine both of both my passion for creativity and design with my day job at a different company.

[00:27:00] [00:27:00] Yeah. Now I’m a design program manager. 

[00:27:02] Eric: Yeah. And so, yeah, you basically get to work a corporate job and then utilize that creativity, but then also continue building out what you’ve created from scratch. It’s a very impressive to, to what you’ve done so far. , so that’s why I enjoy following like your whole journey so far and just being able to see you progress from, you know, like I mentioned, it was just from weddings to then murals and.

[00:27:28] Menus and now digital and all this crazy stuff. So it’s been just like super fun. , understanding and seeing that through, , for, for people out there that are listening who, , you know, they’re considering like, you know, should I just do something like you did in terms of, is it that they should just aspire to.

[00:27:48] Create a side business or you think that kind of the route that you took was just, Hey, let me just start by doing and just doing it for myself, and then maybe it’ll lead to somewhere. , what would [00:28:00] you say to people who are thinking about trying to come up with something or wanting to do something or feel like they should find something more 

[00:28:07] Chie: fulfilling?

[00:28:09], so I feel like each and every one of us. , is totally capable of being creative. And so that might be creative in lettering and art, but it could also be in like music or cooking or journaling or like anything else. And I feel like when people are able to be super creative, , it like spikes some excitement and like energy in them.

[00:28:36], some people also do it in like writing and blogging and stuff, but. I would encourage people who are like trying to figure out what they want to do to just experiment and do a bunch of things. And I think I was really lucky because I chose lettering and that was the first thing on my list and ended up becoming something that I’ve been doing for over five years now.

[00:28:56] But it wouldn’t, it won’t be the same [00:29:00] experience for everybody, but if you like kind of explore different avenues, I feel like there will be moments where.

[00:29:07] the time just passes by so quickly. because you’re enjoying it. Or you end up being super excited by the final product and you want to share it to your friends or family. And so I would say try different things. 

[00:29:24] And if you’re also passionate about like certain topics, maybe combine it with like a passion project so that you can keep yourself accountable or like set certain deadlines to launch or to share. So, yeah, you have that practice in your daily life. 

[00:29:41]Eric: got it. Yeah. , would you say that, you know, telling people to try something and, you know, incorporate it and put in the accountability measures?

[00:29:51]. Has there been a time that lettering and this artwork was that it, you just didn’t want to do it anymore? At a certain point? 

[00:30:00] [00:29:59] Chie: I’ve never hit that point and I hope I never do. , one of the reasons why I haven’t jumped ship and like pursued lettering full time is. Of that fear actually, because I love it so much now, like I could stay up till 3:00 AM or even like pull an all nighter if I was working on a super big project.

[00:30:21] I’m doing it because I love it so much, but I’m also afraid, like if I were to do it full time, maybe it’ll be extremely stressful because I have to pay for the bills and maybe I won’t get certain client projects. I have to. , fill my time doing other projects that don’t really excite me and my love for lettering will diminish.

[00:30:41] And so those are all like really big fears that I have. 

[00:30:44] Eric: No, you bring up a really good point, , in terms of people deciding to just jump full force into, to something. And then all of a sudden all of that, like we talked about the, you know, the business side of things. , you know, doing the HR, you know, doing the sales, [00:31:00] doing the marketing, all of that, which kind of.

[00:31:02] It takes away from the passion, passion work, , just ruins the whole thing. Right? So I think in terms of this conversation, it kind of brings to light that, you know, people, if people are gonna look at doing a side hustle to create a side business and side income to hopefully eventually have that turn into their full, full time job, that might not even need to be the case.

[00:31:24] Right? Because they can just continue. With their full time job and then supplement that with a passion project that also actually makes you a lot of money and then that could be the perfect balance that you’re looking for, right? 

[00:31:37] Chie: Yeah. Yeah. If someone’s like looking for something that they want to do, I would highly encourage them not to do it if it’s just for the

[00:31:44] money.

[00:31:45] It can, it can be really hard. And so yeah, if all the other responsibilities on top of that specific activity, like lettering doesn’t seem as great to you, like it’s going to take [00:32:00] up majority of your time too if you want to make it a business. And so yeah, try to like see what things you’re really passionate about and excited about before you like jump ship.

[00:32:12] Eric: My last question to you is. You know, people are always, people were always told, yeah, just go find a passion and then you’ll figure it out. Is there something that you’ve been able to identify to consider lettering your passion? Like how do people know? How do people identify 

[00:32:29] Chie: that? How, sorry, I don’t know if I’m understanding the question.

[00:32:35] Eric: I how so? Like, you know, I’m trying to figure out what to do. And people tell me like, yeah, just go fig out. , just follow your passion or go figure something out. Right? Like whether it’s maybe it’s like skateboarding or, , be an artist or something like that. And then for you to have jumped, jumped into it and then basically fallen in love with, with this type of art.

[00:32:56] How is, was there something that you were able to identify, say like, yes, this [00:33:00] is my passion. This is what, cause you didn’t do this before necessarily 

[00:33:04] Chie: kind of 

[00:33:04] Eric: doodle. And I don’t think you’d say that doodling was your passion. 

[00:33:09] Chie: Right? Right. Yeah. Okay. , so it kind of sounds similar to like how people say, Oh, go find yourself, or like, go find your passion.

[00:33:19] And I feel like after going through my experience and also listening to a lot of stories of other creatives and other entrepreneurs too. I’ve heard many times that they’re not actually, they actually didn’t like find their passion or like found themselves. They more so like uncovered themselves.

[00:33:40] So, , a lot of people that are passionate about some things, like it might be related to something that they really enjoyed doing when they were young. So nowadays. Or once people become older, they’re in the mindset that they have to have this career and then they have to follow these certain steps to become a [00:34:00] successful adult.

[00:34:01] But there are, I’m sure, different things that excited them and they were like free to do when they were kids. And so for me, like lettering wasn’t something that I knew. I could do when I was younger, but I definitely remember now that I was always creative. Like I enjoy taking fashion class when I was in high school.

[00:34:28] That was like the one class that I ever took, but it was super fun. I also loved like designing posters for ASB and like school and stuff, and then I also remember I was in band and I was like. I think I was president of band, but I had a council and I had to basically letter on these visors and I remember stumbling upon a photo of it when I was like, wow, I was actually doing this shit when I was in at like 13 or something when I was a teenager.

[00:34:58] But I forgot [00:35:00] about all those things because I was just so focused on my career and like getting, , yeah, getting good grades, getting a nice major, and like. Being successful and all that, but I feel like a lot of other creatives, at least who have found their passion, they or uncovered their passion, they eventually realized later on that it was something that they enjoyed doing.

[00:35:24], even slightly when they were younger. 

[00:35:27] Eric: Yeah. Hmm. It makes me think of what I doing when I was younger. 

[00:35:31] Chie: It could get really deep, but we, we often don’t have find time to like think about these things, you know? So that’s really interesting when you hear about other people realizing that. 

[00:35:40] Eric: Yeah.

[00:35:41] And I think, you know, especially if people are just so engulfed in their job and their career, or even decompressing by just binge watching Netflix, that they’re not spending the time to uncover their passion too. So I think that message really is just. You know, set up site, set aside some time for you to try something new and [00:36:00] basically until you uncover it yourself.

[00:36:02] Right. , no, this has been a great, great conversation. I really enjoyed it. I’m going to go reflect, you know, and see and dive in. Maybe go look at some old albums to see what I was doing. , but is there, is there anything you want to share with the audience before we sign 

[00:36:16] Chie: off?  just keep creating.

[00:36:20] And, , if you want to see some of my work, then you can go on Instagram, chie.tamada, or to my website chietamada.com 

[00:36:30] Eric: awesome. Thank you guys so much for staying until the very end. , as always, I have the show notes and everything, , on the website and  as always, you guys can check out the show notes and all the information with Instagram website.

[00:36:46] It’ll all be available online, so thank you guys so much, and we’ll see you guys next time on the next episode. 

[00:36:53] Chie: Bye guys. Thank you. 

[00:36:55] Eric: Great.